Hello everybody
Sven Berg and Clark Corbin here. We would like to welcome you to tonight's Post Register chat.
We're here to talk about Daren Palmer's alleged Ponzi scheme. We've been covering the story for the Post Register since December, and are happy to tackle any questions about the Trigon Group investment program, the investigation and allegations and our reporting on the story.
We'd especially like to talk about this past Sunday's story, Too good to be true, that pointed out red flags investors should look for.
Aside from that, anything on topic is fair game. We'll be here for about an hour.
Shall we begin?

Sorry, let me take a second to fix the typing errors

Alright, should be fixed

Hello I was wondering why the PR has not given more links to the depositions of those involved.

Well, the only deposition - that we know of - was given by Daren Palmer to Idaho Department of Finance investigators. Declarations (sworn statements) were given by several investors. We'll talk to the editors about posting the rest.

great that would be good

Also, all of the documents that we have are part of the public record and can be checked out online. If you'd rather, we can just e-mail them to you.

I think you should show the links in the paper like you did for Palmers deposition and the sworn statements of the other two fellows.

What is expected to happen at this court hearing or whatever it is on April 23.

That's a good idea Jack, I'll talk to Roger about it tomorrow. The way the whole thing came together that day is I was reporting in Boise when the SEC lawsuit came through and Sven was here in Idaho Falls. It came down to time and deadline issues, so we only posted the first ones I got my hands on.
I'll check into posting the others

Actually, Jack, that's a great question. Wayne Klein - the receiver - told us the feds have to prove their case in that hearing, much the way preliminary hearings function in criminal cases.

I'll be covering that hearing in person, so you'll no doubt be hearing from us then, if not sooner.

One of the most common questions Sven and I get is why Daren Palmer isn't in jail yet.
The reason is that criminal charges haven't been filed. The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission did file complaints, but they were civil. Those two agencies only have civil authority.
That said the FBI is investigating, we just haven't seen any action from them yet.

The article in Sundays paper was great about the red flags. I did take it as a slap to the investors. Was that your intention to make them look not so bright?

We did not mean to take a shot at investors, though we knew it could be interpreted that way. From what we understand, many of these investors put their money with Palmer based on years-long relationships that were very meaningful to them.

Also, experts say you should never underestimate the power of believing what one wants to believe.

Not sure you will know this, but any new info on the homes that were built (being built)...will the contractors who have liens be able to recover any money or will it all go to investors first...may be better suited to ask Mr. Klein this, I don't know. Thanks.

That's a good question Niki. I've asked Wayne Klein about this and he said his receivership takes precedent. Any money he recovers will be redistributed to investors. Based on Klein's assertions that most of the money is gone, it looks like the lien holders will have a hard time getting their money.

if this is a civil matter how will we know, the details?

Many of the details of the civil cases are part of the public record, and it's our job to find those, analyze them and report on them. However, some details have been withheld - i.e., Palmer's deposition was heavily redacted - by investigators. We hope all the details will emerge sooner rather than later.

BDT: Here's is Wayne Klein's Web page. It has a lot of the details. http://www.lbfglobal.com/active_cases_receiverships_trigon.html

Where did you come up with the 12 million dollar value for the house Palmer was building in Idaho Falls?

Gina-
That came from investigators. Wayne Klein also used that $12 figure during the meeting he held with investors March 16.
I'm assuming it's an approximation, since the home is incomplete.

It was reported that the State Finace did not receive any reports about Daren Palmer until the PR inquired. However about 18 months ago Fred Finlayson supposedly reported Daren Palmer was running an investment scheme. Fred is a investment mangager with Wachovia. Have you discussed this with him?

Thanks for the tip. We haven't talked with Fred yet, but we certainly will,considering the time frame you mention.

When we first inquired about Palmer and Trigon in December, the Department of Finance told us they had never heard of either.

Investigator Tim Martin reiterated that to us last week.

Do you know if there is a full list of investors available anywhere? Perhaps on the Klein web site? Or is investor information/names private (release only at their discretion)?

There isn't a full list of investors that's been made public yet as of yet.

There are reports that there is a great deal more money than 40 million. Do you suspect more money involved?

Yes. In fact, the finance department was estimating the total pool at $60 million for several weeks. The $40 million figure we typically report represents minimum amounts alleged by the federal agencies - SEC and CFTC.

So to clarify, the value of the house you reported was not based on any factual information, but rather the opinion of Wayne Klien, correct?

Well investigators are using that figure too. We've heard it from several sources And since Klein now has access to every one of Palmer's bank records, I don't know that "opinion" is the right word

You have reported others involved especially as salesmen for Palmer. What do you know about their status for any investigation into their activities?

The only person we've reported was helping promote the investment is Duane Yost, who told me as much a few weeks ago. We don't know if Yost is being investigated or not. The finance department told us in January that Palmer was not their investigation's only subject, but they declined to name others.

What information has the FBI released about their investigation?

Absolutely nothing. In fact, they haven't even confirmed they've opened a full investigation of Palmer and Trigon. That's just how federal agencies work. The reason we know they're investigating is that we've heard it from other sources on several occasions.

Have you made attempts to interview some of the other investors disclosed in the dispositions? If so, can you say "who" has declined your invitations for interviews?

We've been contacting more than a dozen investors for months, and the only ones who have accepted our interview requests are Scott Hillam and Duane Yost. We've tried to contact all the others who gave statements. We can't identify anyone who doesn't agree to go on the record. But, that said, if the person's name isn't Hillam or Yost, they either said no or we couldn't reach them

As an addendum to that question, will salesmen salaries be sought for repayment?

Wayne Klein told us he could go after any money that was paid to investors above and beyond the amount of their principal deposits. As to what would happen with commissions or salaries that may have been paid to salesmen, I'm not sure. That's a good question we'll ask next time we talk to Mr. Klein.

Have you heard any word that Palmer is stating to investigators that the investors were actually lending him the money as opposed to investing it for them?

Jeff- that's exactly Palmer said during his interview with investigators. He said he dealt in promissory notes and viewed the money as loans.

It's unclear why, but its apparent from his statements to investigators that those investors understood their money was to be invested and they would receive certain returns, often at 20 percent per year or more.

why is it that the investors.seem to be getting all the help.why not the builders,supplers ect.

Unfortunately, builders and suppliers who we believe were totally innocent in all of this seem to be fairly low on the priority list of who gets money and when. It's just the way the law works.The receivership - money that Klein is trying to recover for investors - takes precedence.

I suggest you and Mr. Klien check your "sources" and verify what you are reporting as to the projected value of the completed house. The estimated values you are using are not supportable by fact, but are certainly serving to inflame the situation.

Yes, we'll check into that. Do you know of a different value?

Does not the Idaho branch of the FBI work as directed by the Idaho Federal Attorney out of Boise who is Tom Moss. Mr. Moss has roots in Idaho Falls legal circles. Will he respond to your questioning to verify or not that an investigation is underway, and, if not, why not?

We're in regular contact with people in Moss' office. They are very tight-lipped about the situation and only say they have nothing to report at this time

It seems some of the questions you're answering are not appearing in the chat ...

As far as we can tell, everything's working normally. Sometimes we post multiple answers after a question. Sorry if that's confusing - we'll try to do it less.

Let's just say you are most definitely wrong and that you should verify what you print before you print it. That is just responsible journalism.

That's a fair point. Please be assured that we have checked this figure with a number of sources. We've reported it several times and have never been corrected until tonight. No one else has challenged the $12 million figure. E-mail me at sberg@postregister.com if you have information you'd like to share.

I understand that many, if not most, of the investors have little or no documentation of their agreement with Palmer. Why should those claims supercede legitimate document claims of builders, suppliers or mortgage holders?

That's the way the law works when a receiver is assigned to a case.
A lot of the investors do have records, quite extensive records. Those come in the form of statements and promissory notes, save e-mails and more.
Bank records Klein has will also tell more of the story

I am interested why the value of the home is of such concern when it is clear that no one that worked on the home and put money into it will ever be paid. This economy is brutal on contractors and several of the local builders have been nearly broken due to this. (Sorry, not really a question but a comment.)

That's a great point, Niki. I'm sure the lien holders are very interested in the value of the house.

Niki -
The value of the home is of interest because investigators allege Palmer used his investors' money to pay for it. That's why it's of interest to me.

It doesnt matter if the home is worth 12 million or 3 million. What matters is the rock star lifestyle that Palmer led which is one of the red flags that the PR reported on this last weekend.

has anyone ask the building dept.?what the building permit fees , est. value. 12 mil alot.

Permit fees, according to the building dept., were about $15,000 for the house, garage, and pool house.

Have any of the vehicles that Palmer ditched in December been recovered by the receiver, or are they just gone?

KGB,
I don't know if the vehicles have been recovered or not. They were sold before Klein was on the case, and he declined to get into the details about specific assets.
He has said he will look at all property and vehicles and determine if they are recoverable, so I assume that means these cars.

What will happen to the $ given to his wife, schools, church, other charities?

All of that money - charitable contributions, church tithing,etc., is subject to the receivership. It all depends on if Wayne Klein can find it and whether it's worth his time - the investors' money - to try to recover it.

the 15k is just a above avg. home.

That may be, but there is nothing average about the unfinished house. We'll double check our sources and how they came up with the figure.

is there any unpaid building fees ...............

Not that we know of, according to city records we've reviewed.

Also do you know if there has been any further investigation of the alleged $250,000 lost by Palmer on "an overseas scam". Perhaps a cover for a large sum of money transferred to a discreet account elsewhere?

Wayne Klein mentioned those payments Palmer claimed to have made, and he said he would try to recover them for investors.

so is wayne klein working for the gov. or the investors?

He works for a private company, LBF Global. He was appointed by the courts to work on behalf of investors. He will only be paid if he recovers a substantial amount of investors money... it would need to be several times his fee of $250 per hour.

Any chance the PR can get into the home and take pictures. Would the buildrer allow it? The bathtub cost 20,000 dollars alone.

We'd love to get inside the home, but so far haven't figure out how. I'm actually not sure who would have the authority to let us in. It could be Palmer's creditors or even Klein, who took control of Palmer's assets.

It's totally wrong if innocent hard working builders/suppliers, lien holders or mortgage holders are placed behind greedy investors, who assumed the risk for the excessive returns they were promised. If the law allows that, something is very wrong with the system. That ought to be a focus of your investigation. Protect those who deserve to be protected.

At this point, we're just trying to report what happened. In the future, there will be time - we hope - to unravel the justices and injustices involved. It does seem like a very tough break for honest businesses to lose so much money through no wrongdoing of their own.

Thank you for the opportunity and I must say I'm rather surprised at the small turnout. Thanks for your evening time! Keep at the investigation guys.

Thanks for your time, Niki.

Any idea on how long this process will take?

Wayne Klein said it could take three or four years to fully liquidate any assets. He also said he hopes to distribute any money he recovers along the way.
As for the investigations and legal proceedings? I don't know.

We'll be here for a few more minutes to take a couple last questions. Remember, you can always e-mail us at sberg@postregister.com or ccorbin@postregister.com
Our phone numbers are in the paper as well,

thanks PR

Thanks a lot for you time and input, bdt. We'll be continuing to report on this story as it develops.

Great work Guys. Keep after it.

Thanks for the info.

Absolutely. Our pleasure to be of any assistance. Thanks for your time.

We'll stay after it. Our whole goal is to explain what happened, provide the info others aren't willing to share and start a discussion about this.
Your tips and input are always welcome.
Just a couple more minutes here before we sign off...

DO YOU GET ANY ?S FROM THE TV GUYS?

BDT- I go on channel 3 every Monday at 5 p.m. and periodically talk about our stories and findings.
Other than that, no, we haven't had any other reporters ask us about Trigon or Daren Palmer.

oops, the Idaho AP bureau does ask about our stories from time to time. What we write is usually sent out over the news wire for other publciations.

Thanks everybody for stopping by and spending time with us. We hope we've been informative and answered your questions.
Anything else, just ask.
Please continue to follow our reporting in the Post Register.

I'm going to sign off now. Thanks to everyone for your time and very good questions.

Sven Berg